Plate solve, #40 on Fundamentals Path — posted 24/1/2024

Jupiter calculation

I tried to send this as an email, but it was rejected because of non-standard characters, so I am posting it here.


I have been greatly enjoying PixInsight Fundamentals, learning a lot.  I worked my way through Stretch Academy and Fast Track, and am now going through Fundamentals Path.  Coincidentally, the next thing for me to look at was the new #40, plate scales.  Having read it, I think there are a couple of problems with the analysis; I’ve written an alternative analysis below, and am interested in hearing what people think. 


The first problem is that when you divide 36,000 by 1,296,000, you are getting seconds/arc second, so the number 0.027…=1/36  is how long it takes Jupiter to rotate one arc second.  Alternatively, it can be interpreted as a rotation of 36 arc seconds per second, which is not how it’s described in the video.


The second problem is that an arc second of rotation by Jupiter wouldn’t look like an arc second of movement by us on Earth.  


Here is my explanation.  I’ve kept the numbers smaller by quickly going to a rotation of 1º.



Jupiter rotates 360º in 10 hours = 36000 seconds so it rotates 1º in 100 seconds so 1 arc second in 100/3600=1/36=0.027.. seconds.  Thus it’s rotating at 36 arc seconds per second.  


However, this doesn’t mean that since a pixel on the sensor subtends about 0.33 arc seconds that we see a rotation of about 36/.33 = 110 pixels per second.  That’s because an arc second of rotation on Jupiter doesn’t subtend an arc second from our point of view.


If we don’t worry about the curvature of Jupiter, we can roughly say that we are looking at 180º of Jupiter at its equator, and that subtends something like 48 arc seconds from our point of view, so one arc second from our point of view is about 180/48 = 1.8º on Jupiter’s surface.  Thus one pixel from our point of view is about 0.6º on Jupiter.  That’s about 2160 arc seconds on Jupiter.  If Jupiter is rotating at about 36 arc seconds per second, that takes about 60 seconds.  So it looks like on the setup described it’s about a minute per pixel, and 3 minutes for 3 pixels, accounting for seeing.  Since the 0.33 arc seconds is pretty standard for planetary work, that’s seems consistent with the general advice not to go longer than 3 minutes on a video of Jupiter if you’re not going to de-rotate it.

Comments

  • Thank you for the correction.
    This is what I get for doing things on the fly without thinking. Yes, you and others are correct.
    Yesterday I posted an updated version with the correct math.
    -the Blockhead
  • Hi.  Thanks for the quick reply.  #40 wasn’t updated this morning when I first saw it, and it’s the same now.  I wonder if it’s updated on Patreon but not on Fundamentals.

  • Hmm.. maybe a cache thing?
    Can you please check with a incognito tab in your browser?
    I just checked..I am pretty certain it is up-to-date now.
    Thanks
    -the Blockhead


  • Hi again. I had the same problem on the iPad and Mac Mini using Safari, so I tried on the iPad with Chrome. I had to look up my password to log on, so it doesn’t seem likely that Chrome is using the same cache as Safari — but I don’t really know. Anyway, I get the same video every time. Are we talking about the same location? I look at Fundamental Path #40 each time. It has the date Jan. 24 and the word Patreon at the top.
  • Yes... it is the same video- links to the same page.
    You can seen in the attached screen capture that with about 2 minutes left (near the end) the "40" (from 40" for the diameter of Jupiter) is on the calculator. This is the new version of the video. 

    The page is:

    I overwrote the old version... so there is only one version of this video on my site. 

    -the Blockhead
    Screenshot 2024-01-26 181221.png
    2273 x 1801 - 1M
  • This is weird.  I can see the 40 on your screen shot, but when I hit the link I still get the old version.  I’ll try to attach the two screen shots that show this.   
    IMG_2566.png
    2360 x 1640 - 377K
  • The second screen shot.
    IMG_2567.png
    2360 x 1640 - 2M
  • I have turned on Right Click access for you.
    You can now download videos. 
    If you start this video playing... and then right click you can save it to your computer.
    Then play it. 
    It has to be a cache issue in some way.
    (you can try from your phone as well... another indpendent method).

    It is bizarre this is so persistent for you.
    -theBlockhead 
  • Thanks for enabling the download, but I'm afraid it didn't help.  I expect that the cached version I'm seeing is what got downloaded, because I still get the old version.  I have attached a screenshot from that video showing that it's the old one -- you might be able to see that it says it's an mp4 at the top and that it's on QuickTime Player.   

    I did try private browsing on the Mac Mini and also checked with my iPhone, but with no improvement.

    I don't think it's worth either of our times to keep worrying about this -- I don't want to mess with my history and cache because in general they seem useful.
      
    Arny
    Screenshot 2024-01-27 at 9.48.57 AM.png
    3840 x 2160 - 5M
  • Actually this could be something more subtle and devious...and it is good for me to know.
    I am using Amazon Edge servers to deliver the streaming videos/data. They store files at "Edge Servers" near to the location of data requestors (you). I fear that because I did not change the name of the file when I updated it... the Edge server you are using has the old copy of the file. It is not being updated because you are requesting a file with the same name. If I changed the name of the video file...I suspect it will be forced to get the new version from MY root server where the original file exists.

    Edge servers increase the speed of video delivery...but I wonder if this is a small consequence. Typically Edge Servers will refresh stale files by querying the original server...but this timescale may be on the order of hours or days which is why you continue to see the issue. I predict eventually you will try this video and it will be updated. 


    -the Blockhead
  • Interesting.  I'll try in a couple of days and let you know.
    Thanks again.
    Arny
  • Hi again.  Yesterday morning I could not get the video to load.  Last night it loaded with sound, but no picture.  This morning it loaded with sound and picture.  I like the way you’ve simplified the calculation.  I was puzzled about your answer being substantially different from mine until I realized that when I divided 180 by 4.8 in my head I came out with 1.8 instead of 3.8 or so.   Thanks for your diligence in making the corrected video available to me.   
    Arny
  • Excellent!
    That is however some odd video playback behavior. 
    I do hope your typical experience is not this bumpy.
    -the Blockead
  • So far that’s the only problem I’ve had.
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